Are we the problem?

So we’ve all been present for a few “Where Did Black People Go Wrong?” conversations. You can’t gather more than three Black college graduates (or attendees) in one room without it coming up. The answer always goes back to the decline of the Black family, which is always determined to be a result of the cracked-out 80s and absentee fathers (on occasion, someone attributes it to blue-collar jobs going overseas or the “over”- education of Black women.) I read Midnight on Sunday, and I noticed that Sister Souljah threw out another less-discussed reason, one that likely pissed off a good portion of her readers : Black women.

African-American women got a hard way to go in Sister Souljah novels. First there was Winter in TCWE, a cluck if one’s ever been described, and damn near every woman in the book other than Souljah and the Ob/Gyn she rented her place from. In Midnight, we get a whole new host of chickens—from Bangs and Heaven to the Mom who was half-dressed when the 13 year olds came to the house. At some point in the novel, Midnight observes that there are no real African-American men left who protect and provide for their families or anybody else. And in trying to figure out why, he plays with the idea that AA women aren’t much worth protecting and providing for once you take into account the ones that spread for anybody available, walk around half-dressed, or are only concerned with the base-joys of life like money, fly clothes, and men. And that goes for the degree holders and the nons alike.

Because I’m a feminist, you would think that my knee-jerk reaction to this would be to get offended, but surprisingly the idea didn’t seem so preposterous to me. Actually, it kinda made sense. (I’m also a realist.) I’ve heard countless men complain in so many ways that there are not “real women” left (read the male comments to any post on here. It’s the underlying theme in almost everything they write.) In the “real” world, there was the dude I met, who at 28 was obsessed with having children within two years and expressed that his ideal arrangement would be to have a cool baby mama who gave him full custody of his kids. He just didn’t want the headache of dealing with a wife. There was the 35-year old who also wanted children, which surprised me because he’d always said he didn’t want to get married. (Sorry, I’m a tried and true southern girl, the two go hand in hand for me still.) When I stated my shock, he replied, “Oh, I love the kids. It’s they mamas I don’t like.” I’ve also listened to countless men—friends even, and ya’ll know how I love my dudes—complain about how they are ready to settle down, but there are no suitable mates to be found. Hence, why they just play the field with reckless abandon.

Now admittedly, these men could be making excuses for an advancing age and lagging maturity or they could be raging latent misogynists (a lot of men like p*ssy, but don’t like women. Try not to get confused on that one.) But when I get the backstories on what’s brought them to their “I’ll pass on a wife” conclusions, the excuses are pretty valid. One had an ex he was living with. She moved into his space, and in playing man-duty, he was happy to provide. All she had to do was pay cable while she worked full-time (at a job that paid more than his) and go to school. Cool. He falls on hard times after providing steadily for 2 years and picks up an extra job to make ends meet. Never once does she offer to pitch in on a bill to help hold down the spot she’s living in. Another guy currently lives with his woman, they’ve been together forever and they have 2 kids. I ask, “so why not marry her already?” he argues that she doesn’t know how to keep a house and is generally filthy (I’ve been to their house. The floors were caked with dirt.) He doesn’t get why he should step up to the plate and “do right” by her if she can’t even “be a real woman” (I argued back, “why impregnate her TWICE if she’s not a real woman?” But that’s another blog for another day) Another friend was falling head over heels for a chick, but quickly had to shake himself out of haze when the woman confessed she’d slept with her ex recently and contracted a permanent STD. Another guy’s ex-woman cheated on him with some dudes who she willingly let run a train on her and videotape it. Yet another exceptionally attractive friend wants at least a girlfriend, but has noticed that everyone he encounters immediately wants to do him. The common theme among all of them is ‘women don’t respect themselves anymore,’ they don’t act like real woman and they can’t hold a man down. So why should I act like a real man?

I read Steve Harvey’s interview recently for his new relationship book he worked on and in so many ways, he drew a similar conclusion: ie, there are no real men anymore because there are no real women. We were discussing why it seems so few men are willing to man-up and do right by women, ie, protect, provide, marry. And his answer boiled down to women’s standards—and the lack thereof. In so many words, his argument was men will do anything to be with a woman that they value. But the problem is, so many women have set their standards too low and don’t show that they value themselves (ie, dressing crazy, throwing coochie at a man, having sex with too many people). He argued that the world is full of good Black men who don’t have to be such to get with women because we no longer show act right or require men to do so. So they don’t.

I was thinking about some of the standards that are outlined in Midnight, the ones he observes that African-American women lack (while the book generalizes, I won’t go as far as to say “all”, but I will say “many.”) Like most of us won’t be virgins when we marry, and occasionally we like to put on our freak-um dress and let a lot of it hang out when we want to feel sexy. So yes, on ocassion we are scantily clad. And we do holler after guys on occasion, and we do drink to excess, and a lot of us don’t throw down in the kitchen or keep a tight house (grrr. I know. But if his role is to protect and provide, the cooking/cleaning thing falls back on us. We can’t ask for him to step up and not do the same.) In our quest to throw aside “traditional” values and be independent women who can do what we want, when we want, with whomever we want as often as we want, have we somehow inadvertently caused our men to drop the ball on us because we’re not acting like ladies who are worth the effort?

Discuss.

(And yes, I know this whole post wreaks of “traditional” values that some may call outdated. But it really seems like men’s POV on what a “real woman” is has not caught up with the “feminist” movement that says we can act like they do and all is okay.)

Oh, and shot out to Kewon, because he and I have been having this conversation for years!!

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31 responses to “Are we the problem?

  1. First I would like to say Good-Morning CamronZoe. I NEVER read blogs before, but your blog really has my interest. I’m hooked.

    My first reaction when I read this is to become offended. But one of my professors taught me that you should approach any issue with a dual perspective.

    This post provided another perspective to this commonly dicussed issue, which I appreciate. I think that both AA men and women can go back and forth with each other on the issue of trying to find a “good” woman or man. Me personally I think because we live in this new era in which gender roles have now changed radically and with people freely expressing their sexuality, it has become hard for us as AA men and women to find our way back to one another. Which in turn has made it somewhat difficult for us to forge strong relationships.

    There are good people in this world and there are bad people. But as humans we tend to focus on the negative more than the positive.

  2. Love this entry! Its easy for the Black woman to point the finger at the Black man and point to all that he is or isn’t doing to contribute to her own or our own issues regarding relationships. That’s sort of what we have been groomed to do as of late. The blame game is always more fun when your calling out someone else.

    We have to be willing to take a multifaceted look at ourselves and those we are with or hope to get with before we can bridge the gap between Black men and women.

  3. There are a lack of “good” men because of their own reasons…many of which I believe have to do with their upbringing and family values (and lack thereof). People don’t want to waste time with personal projects. It’s nice to find someone that’s void of deep-rooted issues and has their head on straight.

    I believe that many women don’t put the effort into going above and beyond for men because they simply don’t deserve it. There’s no reason to bend over backwards for the average guy when he’s not worth it.

    I think that people should set their standards high and stop allowing people to slide by because of their looks, bank accounts, or status. You set the standard for how you’ll get treated – – keep that bar low and you have no right to complain.

  4. hmmm…

    let me just first say that i love your blog…you truly have a gift.

    i am not totally buying this theory. i know of a lot of women who do all of these things (take care of home, etc.) – and they are repeatedly passed over for the girl who may be prettier or more trophy wife material. Now, to be fair – i think that this has been the phenomenon among the post college grad crowd – so perhaps this can be more so attributed to immaturity and not being ready to settle down yet – I don’t know. If anything, the attitude among black men that I have seen is: for the girl who is more traditional and does not tolerate the disrespect from men that other women may tolerate – he will leave her for the girl who makes things easy for him in many ways because she lacks respect for herself. so i don’t know…

  5. Wow… there’s alot of things in this post that I want to address, but I’ll just leave that for convo with the friends and pick a few.

    To sum it up, yep, this post does wreak of “traditional values” and traditional gender roles. What is a respectable black woman? Is it one that practices chastity? Is it one that has had no more than 3 partners? Is it one that has had 5+ sexual partners yet has used protection everytime? And that’s just the sexual part of things.

    There seems to be this argument from both side that “there’s no good black men/women around,” but really, lets address what makes someone a “good black woman/man.”
    I think it has less to do with good mates being out there and more to do with knowing what you want from a potential mate, what you are willing to compromise on, and then moving on from there.

    And when wanting to “settle down,” are these men looking for a PARTNER in life or are they looking for TRADITIONAL WIFE? This can affect the kind of woman they’re looking for…

  6. different strokes for different folks…people will make up any excuse to rationalize their ridiculous azz behavior when they should just be with someone who is compatible for them…

    if a man doesn’t want a jump off as a girlfriend, don’t move a lazy heffa who is only good for bangin in your crib and impregnate her….EVER

    if a woman doesn’t want a man she’ll have to “share” with other women, stop dating THAT kind of man…

    while it is NEVER that simple (although I wish it was), I think a lot of people need to accept responsibility for their own actions…we are all adults and NO ONE forces anyone to be in a relationship with unsuitable individuals…there is no shortage of “good” men OR women…people just need to decide if THEY are willing to step up to the plate and BE the same to that person they want…you can’t demand or even WANT a “good” man or woman and you are nowhere near “good” yourself 😉

    that’s my take on it! 🙂

  7. Cam *waving* I am here…I am here….so stop fussing at me for not reading your blog….I READ IT EVERYDAY……I just don’t like posting….. 🙂

    I don’t necessarily agree with the assertion that black men drop the ball on black women because of black women but I acknowledge that there is some truth to the assessment. I have known many young woman who go to extraordinary lengths to attract young men including sleeping with them quickly and changing their own belief system and moral code to fall more in line with what the man they are attempting to attract admits to wanting. Regardless of whether or not that man is worth wanting. The attention given is greater than the consequence of the actions.

    On the same hand, I know many black women who are by all means ladies and are passed on by these same men who claim there are no good black women or make excuses for their misogynistic actions.

    I think this can also be summed up in a chicken v egg scenario. Are the values of black woman falling because black men aren’t in the homes and therefor they must do what they can to attract and keep a mate, or are black men leaving the homes or wishing to not have one because black woman don’t have values. (I’m generalizing)

    In the end, I believe blame can not be put on one gender or the other for why our race is suffering. I think it is high time to stop discussing the why and start changing the now.

  8. I dont think its just us. Men have there stuff too! They make poor choices in mates(just as women do) and fault the entire gender(black women). Black women have loss some traditional values, but i feel that is because men have pushed us to that limit to be more independent. They personfy us as being gold diggers and bossy, btw Belle appreciate the blog “Where’s the Love” its good to know there are many black men who value out strengths. We no longer depend on them to provide for us because we can provide for ourlselves. We see a guy we want and we go and get him. we expect nothing in return and appreciate the time spent for what is was.Now they say we dont allow a man to be a man and we dont hold up the end of the bargain. Please!!! I think we are acting like ladies, but sometimes our strengths are our weakness. I agree with assertive wit.
    People need to stop placing people in categories based on the their poor choices which led to bad experiences. you can not change an person into who you want them to be. See them for who they are and accept it!

  9. I don’t like that as a so called feminist who side with men just because they feel it makes them an equal (or for whatever reasons). Just because you “think like a man” does not make you right. In fact, men have been wrong many, many times for several years. I feel like by siding with your male friends who are such a small pool of the male population she completely undermines the quality black women out there who fight to keep their morals and their man.

  10. This post has some very valid points, and while I don’t necessarily agree with the entire topic, I know that it is a real issue that we face.

    The reality is that we all have to take responsibility for our actions.. mostly women. If we don’t respect ourselves, how can we expect anyone else to?

  11. This is a circular argument that can go on and on forever. When are people going to put themselves to task and stop blaming everyone else. It’s so easy to sit back and point fingers. *BE* what you want. If you want a good woman *BE* a good man- do not put the blame on someone else for your behavior. The same goes for women. No one’s innocent here but it all begins with one person…you.

    If a wo/man is no good then leave him/her and stop messing over him/her and wasting your time and the other person’s time. And I’m so tired of black women being blamed for everything. It’s tired. If you want to get Biblical and traditional about it a man should love a woman like Christ loves us/church…UNCONDITIONALLY through no matter how good or bad she is.

    Either way though…it starts with all of us- the men and the women.

  12. I think one thing that gets lost in these discussions (as it does in discussions relative to black people)is the fact that neither men nor women are monolithic. We are foolish to assume either gender has a “set” grouping of standards by which they search for a mate.

    Some women may dig being a jump off and living a promiscuous lifestyle. Conversely, there are definitely guys out there who may enjoy playing the hero and attract women who may have issues just so they can be a savior.

    Bottom line: if after all of our personal stuff we find someone that we dig and digs us, make the best of it. Whether that be a live-in situation with no nuptials, or a happily-ever-after marriage scenario. If you want a high-quality person, live a high-quality life and mean it. Remember, like generally attracts like. So when you get a bottom-feeder, look at what you’re really bringing to the table before you complain about the pool of people you’re choosing from.

  13. As a young, Hispanic woman, I’m not sure I have the right to speak of this situations in terms of black men/women, but rather in a more general sense of dating and gender roles.

    I find that both young men and women lack the respect for themselves, ambition and drive it takes to be a successful person, husband/wife, and mother/father. The focus for many 20-somethings seems to have shifted to partying, expensive cars, expensive clothing and living way, way outside of their means. It almost seems that some men think that I, as a single woman, would be more impressed with their 22 inch rims than a college degree. And that lack of sense seems to be driving so many men and women that they do not know how to be part of a relationship. It is difficult to be in a relationship, with or without children, and still focus on the material items that one feels are necessary to impress others.

    And I find that as a 25-year-old, college-educated, Hispanic woman living on my own, paying my own bills, driving a new car that I pay for and enjoying the luxuries of being independent, many men are intimidated. Men of any race seem to nearly jump back when I tell them where I work and that I’ve not only BEEN to college but graduated. It’s almost as if so few people are educated anymore that it is shocking to find someone who is.

    So I agree. Women have definitely lost respect for themselves. Many women, myself included, have had those moments where we think, “why did I drink that much?, “why did I talk to THAT guy last night?”, “why do I insist on partying EVERY weekend?”. But it is those women who don’t question their behavior who have a problem. I believe if you respect yourself, men will respect you too. And in turn, men cannot act as though they are innocent in this situation. They are equally as guity of disrespecting women, and themselves, when they decide to take these women home after meeting them hours earlier in a bar/club. You cannot partake in disrespectful activities and then act shocked at the idea that there are few women worthy of respecting. Single life is a difficult road, but last time I checked, it was a two-lane highway. So men shouldn’t be so quick to fault women for their actions and blame them for the down fall of respectful men.

  14. You attract what you are, and if you don’t know who or where you are..look at who you attract. As a woman I have learned not to mistake popularity for respect, as men will treat you the way you show them how to treat you. Yes, you may have the man who is willing to help with some of the extras around the house..but he will get resentful if he is more concerned about keeping a clean house than his woman. Just like a woman gets pissy when she is working all the time, and her man is not holding down a job.

    Because, at the end of the day..the man’s natural role is to protect and provide despite what other hats he may wear in a relationship..and if he is not at minimum doing his natural role then things will fall apart. The woman’s natural role is to nurture and maintain a warm place for rest..i.e. the womb..as we are the provider of and caretaker of life from conception.

  15. It boils down to a partner that is your match. I started dating in that way and it has saved me a lot of drama and arguing over roles. I wanted a provider & protector, so that’s the type I chose, he wanted a strong woman that would allow herself to be protected (and that could cook, lol)so that’s what he chose (of course a million other variables as well). All of that rambling to say: excuses from both sides are a load of crap, folks just settle too quickly and suffer too long in relationships not based on compatibility.

  16. No one is innocent, but we definitely need to stop blaming each other and find a resolution and I truly believe the first step to resolving this entire situation is to start with ourselves. Placing our focus on being the best woman/man that we can be as an individual.

    Happy Thursday to you all! I hope that you all are having a wonderful holiday season so far!

    HI CAMRON!!!!!

  17. Instead of pointing fingers, we should all just admit that we suck.

    Sounds immature and simpleton-like, yeah. But frankly, I’m getting tired of listening to and having conversations about how much Black women suck and how much Black men suck. Neither I nor anyone else (it seems) has an answer.

    Don’t get me wrong CamronZoe, this is a great post (I’m about to pass it on as a matter-of-fact). So please don’t be offended. It’s just that I’ve had this conversation so much, and even more so this summer (over the past few days) for some reason, that I’m just kinda fed up with how much the relationship arena (seems to) suck(s). There seems to be no hope on either side. For all this, we might as well just hate each other, fuck like bunnies when it’s needed to get rocks off, go our separate ways and to our separate homes, and call it a day. No more relationship talk, no more marriage talk. Let’s make it simple.

    But then someone will find holes in my logic too, so we’re screwed either way. Quite comical. 🙂

  18. I’m going to echo a lot of what’s been said about people needing to stop blaming the other gender for their shortcomings. You have to find someone that you are compatible with and make your relationship to work.

    The traditional overtones of this argument bothers me a lot though. Are there really any criteria that will describe what a real woman should be? It bothers me whenever I meet a guy and he asks me if I cook, wondering if I can feed him like his mom did. And i always let them know that I try but I’m no cook. If they choose to be with me then I don’t want to hear any complaints later on about how I’m not a real woman.

    For the most part, people know what they’re getting into. If they make the choice, then they have to deal with it.

    Men continue to cling to these old fashioned beliefs of what a woman should be. And because women are desperate to please and keep a man, they succumb. Don’t think I’m being judgmental because I’m guilty of it too.

    But the definition of a good woman is not one who cooks, cleans and has less than three sex partners.

  19. Good Post. I must say that I admire your ability to even consider both sides; most women would not even open themselves to the thought the problem could/may be them.

    I agree and disagree in part. First, I do believe that you should exhibit what you seek. If you are a club-hopper, drinker/smoker, ‘all about the money’, etc. individual, you will likely attract the same. Become the best you-don’t just talk it, live it; people will see that and you will notice that things in your life will change. Second, there does seem to be a bunch of women concerned with: cars, clothes,vacations, etc. There is nothing wrong with these things, but when they consume you, what else is left? If this is the lifestyle you choose to pursue, do not complain about the lack of prospects, failed relationships,etc. Take the good with the bad. A friend of mine always says about modern women, “She (women) doesn’t want to be with you (men), she wants to be you”. Which I have no problem with, the men are not complaining about our status. Some men who seek relationships will not lose sleep if it does not happen; they make due, and if you’re living that SATC lifestyle you should make due as well.
    Promiscuity does seem to be a problem. As noted several times on this site, at a certain age, education, professional level there seems to be six degrees of separation. With that said, many prospects disappear when men see there is no self-respect concerning who a woman shares herself with. Men, esp. Blk Men, don’t want something easily attainable by any and every man; This doesn’t allow the man an opportunity to make an honest choice based on all facts.
    I often notice a disparity b/w the two when I listen to the ‘lists’ some women have about the traits that they seek in a mate:college educated, tall, financially secure, etc. Most of which have nothing to do with the character of the man.
    In respect to the ‘real woman’ tag, I think this is often tied to upbringing. I was born and raised a Southerner, so my ‘take’ on what MY ideal woman is/will be derives from what I know (my parents,friends parents). I do not expect every woman I date to know the magnitude of a home cooked meal, a clean home, etc. but the one that I marry will know.

  20. Who are these women your friends are dating? Seriously, a chick who participates in a “train” AND videotapes it?!!!

    There had to be red flags before this went down.

  21. whoa, great post…u were on point

    i got so much to say, but i’ll save for it tomorrow when i’m less tired haha

    ps- i appreciate the generalization of ur male readers…haha

  22. I had a discussion with another married friend recently. She was relating the issues another girlfriend of ours was having with her new husband. They argued constantly and after only 6 months of marriage realized maybe they didn’t have much in common to begin with. Though we both agreed that the two arguers needed to re-evaluate and be willing to put forth the effort to fix the relationship, my friend thought that the best solution was just for the wife to “get it together”.

    She reasoned that if the wife sought help (counseling) and found the keys to making the relationship work and then handled herself accordingly, the husband would have no choice but to follow suit. She echoed the adage, “A man will only do what a woman allows him to.”

    I agree, I suppose, but it seems like a Chicken or the Egg concept – to make a relationship work, do you first need a strong man or a strong woman?

  23. Look…

    It’s real simple…if you want a traditional wife, then you need to date a traditional woman and behave like a traditional man.

    Period.

    Stop dating chicks that don’t fit the mold and then start hollering how there are no good black women running around.

    Clearly the issue isn’t the women but the poor mate choices these men make.

    I really wish dudes would stop with the blame women for everything when really it’s their own poor decision making that’s the problem.

  24. I agree that we’ve ALL (men and women) dropped the ball. The bottom line is that we need to take responsibility for our actions and stop finding scapegoats. I’m generalizing here to some degree, but when the shit hits the fan, everyone wants to play the victim role instead of asking, “what did I do to warrant/perpetuate this?” If someone wants their circumstances to change, the question should be “what can I do to change my circumstances for the better?” Instead all you get is, “woe is me…someone else did this to me.”
    This isnt just true of dating, but many of life’s ups and downs.

    I’m by no means innocent here. I spent most of my 20s in a clueless fog, blaming my ill-fated dating/sexual circumstances on the “bad” men in my life. Once I decided to take a hard look at what I was doing to precipitate such behavior and take responsibility for my own bad decisions-basically work on ME first, all those so-called bad men no longer held any interest to me. And vice versa. I eventually found the man that will become my husband in a few months. He is a “good” man by every stretch of the imagination and we are aligned in our values and goals for our future as a married couple.

    I’m a firm believer that you get back what you put into the universe (ie life, work, relationships, etc). As a previous comment mentioned, if you want a “good” person to come into your life, then you have to be “good” yourself!!

  25. Steve Harvey . . .I’m not feeling. Dude really unnecessarily played his starter wife during the divorce, so I’m not surprised that his viewpoints as it relates to women are implicitly misogynistic. But I digress . . .

    IMHO A black man who no longer sees the point in protecting providing for black women is a lost soul. There is no other race of men that would allow their women to be treated the way that black men standby and allow black women to be treated.

    A solution would be for the man to do exactly the opposite of what he has been doing. Instead of avoiding protecting/providing perhaps he should step up and do it. It doesn’t cease to amaze me that some of my most agressive, otherwise untame girlfriends have found love and productive relationships with men that are mild mannered, but don’t play games. They lay down the law and keep it moving. They earn the trust and respect of the woman because their ish is together and they don’t allow themselves to be run over. Coincidentally, these otherwise feisty agressive and otherwise untame sisters know that the brother means business and accordingly fall in line.

    So, in the case where the young lady doesn’t clean up . . .I wonder if dude has asked her to pick up or if they’ve had a conversation about his expectations of tidyness. I’m sure that once he puts his foot down and consistently does so a change is likely to happen.

  26. I think it’s unfortunate and ineffective for men to blame their actions on women’s lowered standards, lack of homemaking or whatever else. But I also don’t subscribe to the notion that there’s a shortage of educated, successful, respectful, responsible (and so on) black people in the world so I can’t co-sign on having lowered expectations and settling either.

    As easy as men can say they don’t do better because women don’t demand better, women can say the same thing. Instead of blaming our actions (or lack thereof) on the sex of the person you’d be interested in, why don’t we invest in ourselves independent of how others behave?

    I’m working on being the best person I can possibly become and it has nothing to do with finding a mate in the future. If I get married or not, the only person who will without a doubt always be in my life is me. So I need to be happy with who I am and set (and adhere to) the standards that I’ve set for myself so that I can be happy, successful, respectable, educated and the other stuff I mentioned before.

    The blame game gets us nowhere except another generation headed in the wrong direction. Maybe if we stop determining our value on what other people think, but establish some goals for our own personal growth, we’d actually be able to grow.

    After we’ve encountered some less than decent character, it’s always healthy to remind ourselves that ‘everyone ain’t like that.’ The worst thing you can do to yourself is let a piece of trash ruin your outlook on the world.

    ~Katrina

  27. I love that everyone here has very valid points and personal interpretations. Sadly though the individuals who need this advice won’t see it, nor care to see it.

  28. The BEST quote my boy told me as to why he was getting married was “I realized I like women over p*ssy.” But i agree the “traditional” real woman or real man is so skewed now we either after to backwards or redefine the terms.

  29. The problem has deeper roots than we realize. And to eradicate it, we must look to biology, anthropology, psychology etc.

    Let’s start with men:-

    Men (male animals in general) are shallow-minded creatures in regards to mating–and this will never change because it’s a built-in brain function for males to want to reproduce with the “fittest” females.
    Throughout the history of the human race, “fittest” has had many definitions. This natural selection process is instinctive. Because we are thinking creatures, we assume all our decisions are conscious ones. (all our decisions *should* be conscious ones; that’s why we need to discuss and weigh them individually or as a group. This is the only way to bring about real change.)

    In our society today, there’s a beauty standard attached to “fittest”. That beauty standard is Caucasian, whether we want to admit it or not. (Blame slavery and the fact white was once considered to be human while black was subhuman. All “subhuman” creatures want to be human by instinct, and if skin color is what defines humanity, then all subhumans will want their offsprings to look as close to the “human” as possible.)

    The fact that the Black Race is not subhuman has not yet sunk in.

    “The first black to…” is proof of this. The first black to be an astronaut, the first black to go to college, to be president, to be CEO etc. One would think that being black is a handicap that has to be overcome. And unfortunately it is! We even descrimate against each other. And therein lies the problem.

    Men subconsciously want “pretty” children because they’ll have a better chance of being picked as a mate, and therefore more likely to pass on genetic material of the father.
    on a conscious level, this isn’t completely true. Humans, unlike other animals, marry. Although men pass on their genetic material indescrimately, they marry the woman who’s “fittest” to be a mate. example: Reggie Bush and Kim K. (I realize they’re not married yet.)
    If Kim were black, she’d not be fit to be with a winner like Reggie because of her past.

    Women:-

    Subconsciously from puberty onward, females know they must attract the male. They dress scantily, sleep with every potential mate that sniffs them, etc. They do whatever is necessary to compete.
    Because we are thinking creatures who are able to make judgments on each other, black women stand a poor chance of winning even though they are the best competitors. The darker you are, the more handicaps you have in this society. We are considered the least desirable by black and white non-thinkers.
    We are subject to all the blame by men and even self blame.
    I dare say that sister soulja is a self-hating black woman. That’s why her character Midnight blames the black woman whom he claims to love.
    I haven’t read midnight’s story but I read Winter’s story. In Coldest Winter Ever, Midnight could have helped Winter become what she needed to be. That’s where Sis Soulja lost me as a black female reader. There was no hope in that story. No redemption. Just condemnation.
    I’m glad you told me that Midnight is a black woman basher book (although I would have guessed that on my own.)

    All men who bash black women are not making conscious choices. They are acting on instinct alone. Therefore they aren’t worthy of an intelligent mate. There should marry a cardbord cutout and leave black women out of their hating rants.

    If a woman can’t keep the house clean, maybe she’s depressed. Why not discuss it with her and see what the problem is. Maybe she’s losing hope about her validity. Maybe she has more on her plate than she can handle. If she was happy the situation would be different. Overeating, apathy etc are all symptom of unhappiness. And there’s help for those who are feeling low.

    We do not have the simple life of animals. these issues that black men say they have with us do not stem from DNA. They are psychological issues.
    It’s hard being a black woman. You are considered the lowest on the totem pole even by your lighter skinned sisters.
    Life seems to be all about good or bad hair, light eyes, “beauty” — all superficial. Where is the depth that makes life meaningful for humans??

    If black men were looking for intelligent black women to marry; if that was the definition of “fittest”, the problem would be half-solved.

    the Black race needs to set its own definition of “fittest”, one that’s give black women a chance to feel wanted and cherished, loved, needed, beautiful, desirable, good-enough, rather than desperate and insecure. Then black women will have different rules, on a subconscious level, for attracting mates.

  30. convos often seem to assault women in reference to where they supposedly fall short on tradition – can’t cook, don’t clean. these convos don’t seem to attack men on that same issue – don’t want to be a faithful, provider for one household, can’t pay ALL the bills. that tradition of women being homemaker existed with men bringing home the paycheck (and in some cases thinking since they did, it was ok to roam sexually).

    isn’t it time we get over this “traditional” view? it ignores all the facets that women possess and especially ignores a major factor that necessitated women to take on non-traditional roles, namely irresponsible behavior of men.

    ex. how many married women were forced to take on the non-tradiitional role of single-parent, provider, cook, maid, etc when their husbands decided they didn’t want to step up and fulfill their duties at home?

    how many women had respect for themselves and decided to kick those men out rather than deal with them as cheaters/fathers of some other women’s child/ren?

    women had to evolve from solely cooking/cleaning, it’s time men get with the program too.

    this ain’t the 1950s or whatever time these so-called traditions come from. we are in a new millenium. be the mate you want, know how to be a faithful, financially responsible, partner in a relationship. when it’s necessary pick up a broom, mop, clean your dirty laundry, throw down in the kitchen. cleanliness knows no gender and neither does hunger.

  31. I would like so first say this is an outstanding post and a topic that will continue to be discussed until Jesus returns. My opinion is this…why not be a good man/woman for yourself? If there wasn’t the chance of winning a mate would we be our best version of ourselves? Outside of success in your respective field of study or occupation would there even be a thought process for a man to work on being more sensitive? Would a woman attempt to learn how to make a meal similar to the fine dining that the man she is trying to get the attention of was brought up on.

    I think that if we all focus on the issues that we know we have and lesson the baggage that we all carry, there wouldn’t be a question of are there any good men or women left.

    Be the version of YOU for nobody else but YOU…and I promise things would go drastically differently in your dating lives. Hell, I will begin by taking my own advice on this one.

    Food for thought…

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