Why we’re not married……(hmmm)

I don’t know how I missed this.

Back in February, Tracy McMillan wrote “Why You’re Not Married” for The Huffington Post. In case you’re unfamiliar, she’s “a TV writer whose credits include Mad Men and The United States of Tara.” I have to give you her bio upfront so you don’t mistake her, like the person who sent it to me did, for Terry McMillan.

What makes this Ms. McMillan qualified to break this down further than say, I dunno, a comedian, a barber, or anybody with a penis and little research? Her version:

I’ve been married three times. Yes, three. To a very nice MBA at 19; a very nice minister’s son at 32 (and pregnant); and at 40, to a very nice liar and cheater who was just like my dad, if my dad had gone to Harvard instead of doing multiple stints in federal prison.

Without really trying to, I’ve become a sort of jailhouse lawyer of relationships — someone who’s had to do so much work on her own case that I can now help you with yours.

Um. Ok.

My best guy friend Kewon, on why this makes no sense:

She knows how to get married, but not how to stay married and i think the staying part is the better skill.  Staying shows that they know how to maintain a relationship, how to navigate the waters. Getting married is easy— just do everything the man says, dont talk back, always be there… then when he gets used to it, take it away. He will go crazy and think he cant live without u. Viola, marriage proposal. *Shrug*

McMillan’s quick summary of why women who want to get married haven’t boils down to about the same reasons that every one else seems to have reached: it’s us, ie, women. It’s both depressing because we’re being made ultimately responsible for a decision that involves two people; but then also refreshing because maybe there is something we can do about it for those of who want to change the status on our tax forms. (20% of women don’t.)

Let me go back for a second though: McMillian breaks down six reasons women who want to jump the broom have yet to do so: You’re a Slut, You’re a Liar, You’re Selfish, You’re Shallow, You’re a Bitch, ie, all ground that’s been covered plenty of times before by misogynists everywhere. Loosely translated to apply to Black women: your business is in the street, you’re a gold-digger, your expectations are too high, or you’re an angry Black woman. Oh, and you date thugs aka men that are beneath you. We’ve dissected and dismantled all of those arguments on here plenty, so I’ll skip that analysis and get to the good part.

McMillan’s sixth reason is “You’re Not Good Enough”. Her breakdown:

I don’t think that. You do. I can tell because you’re not looking for a partner who is your equal. No, you want someone better than you are: better looking, better family, better job.

Here is what you need to know: You are enough right this minute. Period. Not understanding this is a major obstacle to getting married, since women who don’t know their own worth make terrible wives. Why? You can fake it for a while, but ultimately you won’t love your spouse any better than you love yourself. Smart men know this.

It made me wonder if self-esteem is also at the root of why the Black marriage rate is so far behind others. How self-esteem affects a whole host of other issues— sexuality, ambition, emotions etc.— is well documented, but marriage? Never thought about it that way. Still rolling it around in my head.

And that’s not to let Black men off the hook in why Black women aren’t getting married. In addition to a plethora of issues we have, they have a myriad of their own, including an almost paralyzing fear of becoming a “We”. It takes two to do the cliched tango.

Kewon on Marriage:

Funny we’re talking about this. Me and Brian (my boy. You’ve met him a couple times) were just talking about the fear we have that the moment we get married that the woman will change.  His exact words were, “right now, my girl gives me a pretty long chain, but i know the minute we get married she will shorten it up.”

For all the ladies who want to get married and haven’t, McMillan goes on to give a little real-experience insight on marriage, basically debunking the idea that a ring and a huzzzband (cue Jackee) will cure whatever ails you:

You’re just going to need to get rid of the idea that marriage will make you happy. It won’t. Once the initial high wears off, you’ll just be you, except with twice as much laundry.

Because ultimately, marriage is not about getting something— it’s about giving it. Strangely, men understand this more than we do. Probably because for them marriage involves sacrificing their most treasured possession— a free-agent penis—and for us, it’s the culmination of a princess fantasy so universal, it built Disneyland.

The bottom line is that marriage is just a long-term opportunity to practice loving someone even when they don’t deserve it. Because most of the time, your messy, farting, macaroni-and-cheese eating man will not be doing what you want him to. But as you give him love anyway — because you have made up your mind to transform yourself into a person who is practicing being kind, deep, virtuous, truthful, giving, and most of all, accepting of your own dear self — you will find that you will experience the very thing you wanted all along:

Love.

Discuss.

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16 responses to “Why we’re not married……(hmmm)

  1. The article had some very valid points, but my ONLY issue with what she wrote, is that she focused on getting married, and not longevity in a marriage. I know plenty of people who have walked down the aisle, some with good intentions, some trying to prove a point, some knowing it was a bad idea, etc. I almost made it down the aisle myself (but thankfully I realized it was going to be a HUGE mistake). I say that to say this, I don’t believe the problem is getting a man, or even getting a man to put a ring on it. The problem is the choices before marriage and then keeping a marriage. I have two close friends with divorces under their belt and we aren’t even 30 yet. So I’m not really interested in taking marriage advice from a 3x divorcee. But she did make some very valid points about self esteem, about the give and take in marriage, etc.

  2. I think folks need to really take a good hard look at why they want to get married and what they hope to get out of it.

    It does seem, that for the most part, men and women are looking for opposite things when it comes to relationships, and so, it seems that we are indeed, destined for problems. And I do agree, with the guys, who have said, that men have a much better grasp of what to expect during marriage, then women do. And I think this is because, in order to keep women interested in marriage (in a world where her sole source of validation and financial security is not completely determined by her marriage status) there has to be a certain level of ‘delusion’ going on. The fantasy of ‘happily ever after’ is sold to women, so that we will continue to want to get married…continue to play to the game. What happens, often, is that once we get married, and realize its not the fairy tale we were sold, our disillusionment leads us to the divorce lawyer. I think that men, more then women, understand that marriage really isnt ‘fun’ nor is it ‘happy times’ most of the time. So that is why women are rushing to the alter, while men, typically hold back.

    As i have said, many times before on this site, i tend to think that marriage is not for somone like me. Why? because of this RIGHT HERE…

    “But According to Earth’s social order, women need their children born in legitimacy, hence we get married. I do believe it’s up to the woman to create an atmosphere where tolerance can exist. Why? Because Men can’t. Why? Testosterone.”

    I find it very hard to seperate marriage from this mentality, and do not find this set up one bit appealing or enticing. I do not believe that women ‘need’ our children to be born in ‘legitimacy’. I KNOW, that we are simply responding to a paradigm that we did not create, yet puts pressures on us to conform to a certain line of thinking. The whole “legitimacy’ thing, in my opinion is NOT the “earths’ social order, but rather, man’s. If it were not for economic and religious reasons, there would be no reason for women to focus so much on the paternity of their children. There are other ‘social orders’ which can sustain women and children, without so much concern for paternity. It is not the ‘natural’ way of things. its just the way we are doing it…now.

    And i also do NOT believe that men cannot create an atmosphere where tolerance exists. They do it all the time. If they didnt, this so called ‘testosterone’ would have them killing each other upon sight.

    No…they ARE capable of cooperation and tolerance. They create all kinds of protocols, rules, procedures, hierarchies and social status’s, for this exact reason. They simply opt to place that responsibility on women, in relationships, so that no matter where they stand in the male hierarchy, they will always be higher then the woman. Thats why they have to ensure she knows her ‘place’…so his placed is not compromised.

    Like THD said, marriage is a FINANCIAL institution. we are trying to make it be about, something it was not designed for. As Peter Parker said, patriarchy sets the standards by which we all engage each other at every level…from how we meet, interact, marry and mate. And under patriarchy, marriage was always about money, land, resources and control over children. It was NEVER about love.

    So, i think for those of us who still see marriage as a viable option and a desirable state to be in, they should be real honest with themselves about what its really about and what they will get out of it.

    Ironically, i think that most men have a much better and more realistic idea of what that is. Cuz i think if women really knew what to expect, most of us wouldnt want to do it. So we have to be ‘coerced’ into it, with stories of happily ever after, or forced into it, with social conditioning, religious obligation, financial necessity or ‘legitimacy’ of offspring. Once you remove those imperatives, there has to be something else that would motivate us to participate in something, that all the studies show, makes us more unhappy and less satisfied, then our partners. If most of us knew, it would be twice the work, majority of child rearing, increased chances of infidelity (on his part) and financial ties that can crush you…I dont think most of us would be as pressed to get married, as we are now.

    I had a friend – an African woman, who married an AA man. She told me…

    “Marriage is like shit with chocolate over it. it looks like it tastes good, but its not until you start chewing it, that you realize the brown stuff in the middle aint the chocolate you first tasted!” LOL

    I never forgot the look on her face as she said that shit.
    F

  3. I read this blog often and I think for the first time I can say….CamronZoe you sounding like you hating,

    “What makes this Ms. McMillan qualified to break this down further than say, I dunno, a comedian, a barber, or anybody with a penis and little research?”

    Could we not ask the same question of you? The article made a lot of sense.

    The article was well written…Tracy is a true writer with a good sense of humor and wisdom from her actual trials in life. She didn’t complete a 6month life coach training, went out on a few bad dates and suddenly has the skinny on life and men. I believe she shared about her three marriages to show just how easy it is, which goes against the mainstream that keeps saying its so hard to get married. Its not hard at all.

  4. Finally read the article. The article is very funny. And very real. However I think a people will misinterpret it – men in particular – cause on the surface it seem like it’s woman bashing put it’s not – it’s actually quite empowering letting women know they don’t have to be victims in this dating game and if they learn to be really honest with themselves about what they want AND eliminate the bad seeds EARLY then they can have the happy yet realistic relationship they want. She also makes a very good point about how the sexes perceive marriage – men look at marriage as an ending – women look at it as a beginning – those views are incompatible AND probably why men often rate their marriages a lot happier than women do – often men will be quite happy/content in the relationship and women will be miserable hence why men are often blind sided by divorce papers.

  5. “Cuz i think if women really knew what to expect, most of us wouldnt want to do it.”
    ———————–
    AMEN!

    This is exactly how I feel as a black woman. I’ve been filing single on my W-2’s long enough to pickup on a few things and the end result is that marriage simply does NOT appeal to me in the manner it is currently presented in. And this article only serves to make me throw the final towel in!

    As it stands, I only consider marriage as a tool I need before bringing children in the world. I need the financial assistance it provides and the support for rearing my babies.

    Cooking, cleaning, submitting to another human being, spending less time with friends, consulting another person about purchases, living with another human being, getting permission to do stuff, unable to be with anyone else, dealing with someone else family, still working to help provide, oh gosh let me stop before I get depressed or offend someone.

    All I’m saying is that those are aspects of marriage that I picked up on over time and now that I’m used to my independence, it has become sort of a deal breaker to me.

    This article as well as it’s cousin that suggests that there is a “black man shortage” are off base. What needs to happen is a real research team should get together and find out if Black Women are still interested in marriage. I know of way too many fabulous single women who are living the life right now and it includes men.. just not a “husband.”
    It’s no fluke that SEX AND THE CITY is as popular as it is because it resonates with women and its time that researchers stepped in to see if there is a real correlation there. I hate to use a reality show as an example but look at Cynthia and Peter from RHOA. Wasn’t she dragging her feet to the alter?

    I’m not bashing marriage by the way, I just think mindsets have changed and it should be acknowledged instead of beating us over the head with the idea that we are flawed. Of course we are FLAWED..men are too so it has to be deeper than those 6 BS characteristics. I mean let’s be real…we all know a “shallow, insecure, b!tch” who is married.

    So really Terry?!

  6. Sometimes I think all too often we want to live in the land of “ideal, but improbable situations.”

    First things first, I’m like do black people just like being broke? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out two incomes is better than one. Most people who build wealth build it on top of family, not really so much when single. I’ll bring data tomorrow but, for the most part, wealthy people are married, even with divorce chopping that down, overall they tend to fare better. So I’m sitting here like ok, so marriage is out the door, well how else do you consistently bring in a second income into your household? Because shacking, statistically, data driven, does not bring the same economic benefits, nor does it bring any financial security or stability. Put all this bullshit aside about women taking half in a divorce, since the overwhelming majority of black women work, dude still gets the benefit of that second income while married.

    Secondly, it has always bothered me that people who aren’t into marriage ARE into relationships. So why the cooties, icky stinky poo when it comes to marriage? are you an independent, free, trailblazing woman when single then you morph into a subservient twit when married? I’m not getting it. Like seriously, do you transform like a shape shifter or a robot from Cybertron five minutes after saying “I do”? How are you suddenly compromising so much more unreasonable stuff than it takes to sustain a long term relationship. I’m not getting it. You want to be with someone for years but marrying that person would just make you a female peon?

    Flip that up for men. The men who have the MOST negative to say about marriage are– get this– constantly booed up. Booed up, assed up whatever, but they aren’t the loners. So WTH is wrong with black people? (because other races don’t categorically bash some ish that actually has worked in their favor).

    And lastly when it comes to raising children, co parenting, being married or being divorced or not being married and living together. It gets tired. Ask the children what they want. They won’t start talking about new family paradigms. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and absolutely nothing compares to everyone under the same roof, preferably with the security of marriage. NOTHING. (and we’re talking about good parents here, so let’s drop the talk of dysfunctional parents just to throw salt at a solid argument).

    Most people do NOT continue to live together, once they are no longer in a relationship, because doing so prevents either from moving on with their romantic lives. So yeah, we have a big problem with black men not parenting their children. True, but check this out:

    The MAIN reason the mother IS the better parent is BECAUSE the children usually live with her. Flip that up and make the father the custodial parent and all of a sudden, JUST LIKE THAT, black mothers would take a tremendous hit to their parenting reputation. It’s hard to be a parent who doesn’t live in the home, no matter how dedicated you are. So logic reasons the best way to keep both parents involved is to have both living with the children and by extension, marriage secures that (we know shacking hasn’t been working for us– or anybody really).

    I’m sure each of us knows at least one chick who does not have custody of her kids and just how half assed of a parent she is. She might even be your girl who is usually too available to go out, considering she has kids.

    If you all think that you’ll somehow be able to reverse centuries of human dynamics and buck every trend and make it all harmoniously work, have fun.

    I’ll just watch from the sidelines.

    There’s a commonality to success, I don’t know why we’re so hell bent on deviating from it but trying to make those deviations CONSISTENTLY achieve the same end result.

    However if two people were committed to raising their children whether they were married or not my guess is you could have the same results – kids growing up in a stable environment with two loving parents.

    Similar, but not the same. Very similar, but not he same. You can come close, but you’re just not getting all the way there.

    The problem in the black community is that most people don’t hit 100%, let’s say the average person hits 70%, I think that’s about right.

    Our problem is we’ve lowered the bar to 50% and folks are only hitting 30%. It’s a hot mess. We need to raise the bar. Doesn’t mean you act like there’s only ONE way, but now there are no freaking standards at all, and it’s just not working.

  7. Is this written by you CamronZoe, or is this what your Guest Blogger wrote? Either way, I enjoyed it, and agree strongly with the author!

  8. @ Jeniah yes for real, that attitude is exactly why the African American culture is stuck where we are, no one wants to accept the fact that they too could be part of the problem. Steve Harvey did a great job, however there are certain dynamics of relationships that are unique to the black culture that separate us from whites, Hispanics, Asian etc. At the end of the day I have been happily married for 8 yrs and I raise all my children inside my home. I wrote this book to help. Maybe you need it, maybe you don’t but I can drive through my old neighborhood in Detroit and see thousands of people that do…..I wrote it for them and people like them. Might wanna try having an open mind, you never know you might learn something!

  9. It has always bothered me that people who aren’t into marriage ARE into relationships. So why the cooties, icky stinky poo when it comes to marriage? are you an independent, free, trailblazing woman when single then you morph into a subservient twit when married? I’m not getting it. Like seriously, do you transform like a shape shifter or a robot from Cybertron five minutes after saying “I do”? How are you suddenly compromising so much more unreasonable stuff than it takes to sustain a long term relationship. I’m not getting it. You want to be with someone for years but marrying that person would just make you a female peon?

    There is a BIG difference in expectations when one goes from being a girlfriend to a wife – BIG – HUGE. Same for men going from being a boyfriend to a husband. Also I can leave a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with minimal issue – dissolving a contract is whole nother ball game.

    Having a non-marital relationship provides you with the benefit of companionship with none of the marital responsibility. This may change for those who shack – but I don’t believe in shacking – might as well marry if you do that.

    And yes some women change GREATLY when they get into relationships – and it’s not always conscious – it’s very easy to lose yourself – part of the reason I’m on a mancation now – lol – and I’m as independent as they come.

  10. Do-not-ever imply that my mind is closed because I am not in agreement with you.

    Secondly, I am not interested in literature, rhetoric, preaching, blogging, or any writing, that approaches the problem as though it is resolved with a uni-directional conversation with black women. If you want to get all inclusive, then I’m willing to listen. Until then, no bueno.

    Paradigms shift – you gotta shift with them or be left behind.

    MMMMM, you know, that’s almost like saying I need to be obese because obesity is becoming the norm. Sometimes the shift isn’t working and you can’t shift WITH it.

    There is a BIG difference in expectations when one goes from being a girlfriend to a wife – BIG – HUGE.

    My point is this:

    everything someone has to say about giving up in a marriage, they give up, to a lesser extent, in a LTR. So why be into LTRs but no marriage. That’s like working a job just fine for 3 years then when the company says “how about a contract” you start flipping the hell out like all of a sudden you’re going to become a slave. Or renting forever but acting like ownership is going to be the death of you. I would expect those people to be consistent and stay single and in short duration relationships. but for people who seem to LIKE the comfort of longer term relationships, I don’t see why so much distain for marriage.

    If you got a shitty relationship, you got a shitty relationship. If you got a shitty mate, you got a shitty mate. I’m not sure why folks are acting like the institution is the problem when it’s the people– the institution itself is inert. There’s no rule in marriage outside of the illegalities of polygamy in most states, everything else is imposed by religion, culture and other such mores. So if people have so much to “lose” by getting married then they need to address the root– the culture they adhere to, because marriage ain’t got a thing to do with that.

  11. @Dash

    There’s no rule in marriage outside of the illegalities of polygamy in most states, everything else is imposed by religion, culture and other such mores. So if people have so much to “lose” by getting married then they need to address the root– the culture they adhere to, because marriage ain’t got a thing to do with that.

    Yeah and you call me an idealist. You know good an well if folk could easily shake any of the above MOST of the conversations we have on this site wouldn’t exist. Also the “institution” is made up of those mores – culture – religion – etc. Marriage isn’t a natural state it’s a man made one that came with a hell of a lot of rules and responsibilities – so that take is a little disingenuous.

    We now like to try and decouple it from all those things and make it about love and soul-mates and what not – but yeah it wasn’t ever about that. It was about building wealth – have legitimate offspring and making alliances when needed. No more or less.

    MMMMM, you know, that’s almost like saying I need to be obese because obesity is becoming the norm. Sometimes the shift isn’t working and you can’t shift WITH it.

    Or it’s like saying damn those manufacturing jobs are what made American great and that’s what we need to make America great again. Or it’s like saying marry for love and companionship instead of money and heirs.

    Um…but those jobs aren’t coming back are they – though they are needed and the reason we had such a thriving middle class. And anytime you talk about marrying for wealth building and heirs thoughts of gold digging arise.Paradigms shift. I didn’t’ say it was always for the better.

    And the reason your obesity example doesn’t work is b/c I don’t need anyone else to get me un-fat. At any point I can decide to eat less and run more. BUT relationships aren’t that black and white AND require not just your willingness BUT the willingness of someone else to make it happen.

  12. everything someone has to say about giving up in a marriage, they give up, to a lesser extent, in a LTR. So why be into LTRs but no marriage. That’s like working a job just fine for 3 years then when the company says “how about a contract” you start flipping the hell out like all of a sudden you’re going to become a slave. Or renting forever but acting like ownership is going to be the death of you. I would expect those people to be consistent and stay single and in short duration relationships. but for people who seem to LIKE the comfort of longer term relationships, I don’t see why so much distain for marriage.

    Yeah – except for that part about that contract that’s messy to dissolve and if I’m in a LTR I’m still living in my own place – so I’m not (and many others aren’t) sacrificing space and time and autonomy in LTR’s which they would if they got married. There’s also the likelihood that our finances aren’t intertwined either – another biggie once folk get married – so yeah you’re assuming that those in LTR’s are living married lite – and many aren’t and the change would be hella drastic if they were to get married.

  13. so yeah you’re assuming that those in LTR’s are living married lite

    Stop fronting like a lot of women aren’t. Like a lot of folks aren’t shaking and female is playing wifey while male is playing bachelor. Hell, if not for that, how did wifey even become a term (which I hate, BTW)?

    BUT relationships aren’t that black and white AND require not just your willingness BUT the willingness of someone else to make it happen.

    And therein lies the problem

    The problem I have with ALLADIS and all of these black women here’s what you need to be told relationship books is that the ENTIRE FOCUS is on getting women to change, shift and jump through hoops to convince an ALREADY UNWILLING man to be willing, and probably to be half assed, one foot in one foot out, willing at that.

    Is THIS the conversation we really need to be having?

    That’s why someone else pushing their book, I’m in the move for a Dave Chappelle eff yo couch moment, like I need ALL THIS just to understand you, and you have no accompanying book for me? Doesn’t sound worth the trouble.

    You ever go into the store to buy something and see a thick owners manual and just say, nevermind? Or you read the instructions to Ikea furniture and decide to take it back and go to pottery barn where it’s already assembled and STURDIER? I mean if you ain’t got no choices (money), then you pretty much gotta deal with ikea and the confusion, headache and do-it yourself-ness.

    I’m just saying.

    Sometimes the conversation being had is all wrong.

    If all one’s time is spent trying to work around, and with, somebody not that workable and, let’s face it, not that worth it, then you can’t even be the kind of person you need to be, and have the focus you need to have, to find someone who is.

    No one in their right mind would make a voluntary choice to opt for business partner that presents all these problems. Yet we do it every single day with a life partner (or long term partner).

    Shit makes no sense.

    So then people say, well if you’re going to be a LIABILITY, then I’m going to shield myself from impact. No mixing of the finances, no sharing of the residences, an easy escape route.

    But just think if, from the gate, it was all about going about it the right way. No time wasted on the wrong dudes, or minimal time waste, if possible. No trying, struggling, being in the wrong position, etcetera. You ain’t with it? NEXT. You can’t convince me that quality men aren’t accessible, but what you can convince me is all these other dudes are blocking the view.

  14. @Dash (and i’m out no more posting for me today…

    I’m not fronting like a lot women aren’t. I’m saying many of the ones yelling the loudest about marriage changes things are ones who AREN’T living married lite. I’m on the record as saying shacking is stupid (new study aside) ’cause why the hell play house? Just get married already.

    The problem I have with ALLADIS and all of these black women here’s what you need to be told relationship books is that the ENTIRE FOCUS is on getting women to change, shift and jump through hoops to convince an ALREADY UNWILLING man to be willing, and probably to be half assed, one foot in one foot out, willing at that.

    Yeah – that’s not what I was saying. It’s not about trying to convince someone to marry you – which I’m adamantly against – it’s if half of the population (black men) is looking to delay marriage – or forgo it altogether – then what?

    ALSO – even when folk marry MANY are divorcing leaving single parent homes and whatnot – so even if we could get them married there is no guarantee that they are going to stay that way.

    I’m also NOT a fan of this constant telling women what they need to do to make it work. Where is the “No Wedding No Womb” for men? No Parenting No Pussy – where’s that movement?

    I said earlier we need to give the same messages to men as we do to women – it takes two to make this work but currently the only one who seems to be trying are the women.

  15. Interesting conversation but I think there are two conversations going on. Anybody can get married! If you are over the age of 18 (16 in some states) and not in a homosexual relationship, you can get married. You can choose a mate for whatever reason you come up with, go to City Hall and voila – you are married! Getting married is not the issue because we see folks getting married every day that have no business thinking about marriage.

    The real issue is STAYING married. In order to reap the benefits that MU is talking about, you need to stay married and that is what is not happening. There is a different skill set that is required to get married rather than stay married. It is the difference between two law students who start law school and one drops out after the first year while the other finishes law school, passes the bar and has a successful law career for decades. There is a different skill set operating in both of those individuals’ lives, which accounts for their disparate outcomes.

    I am anti-Steve Harvey and all the other popular “relationship gurus” because they can’t tell people how to stay married. In order to have that conversation, one has to discuss all the things Felis is talking about – values on marriage, the importance of marriage, the type of marriage one wants to have (i.e., traditional versus egalitarian), what you expect in a partner, what your partner can expect from you, etc. Additionally, people need to get real about the characteristics (i.e., honest communication) that sustain a long-term marriage, realistically assess themselves and their partners as to whether they possess those skills and whether they or their partners are willing to work to obtain those skills for the sake of sustaining a marriage.

    IMO, simply wanting to get married is not enough. I think the real question is whether people are willing to do what is necessary to SUSTAIN the type of marriage they want to have after the newlywed phase, after the sex wears off, after the gloss of money wears off and the babies aren’t so cute anymore. I think if people are truly honest with themselves, the answer to that question is usually NO despite their desire to get married.

  16. traditional’ marriage, is unappealing to many women, BECAUSE of the amount of personal changes/sacrifices that are required OF WOMEN, that are not required of men.

    Let’s stop playing games and acting like most of the women saying “marriage isn’t for me” are deeply considering patriarchal notions and all this other cultural baggage.

    Like @ Charlene said, its not just about getting married, but staying married. And historically, that required ALOT of personal sacrifices on the part of the woman, including blows to her dignity, due to infidelity.

    And if this is what the men do, then they’re doing it whether married or not. So if THIS is the reality, you’re dealing with it either way, just one way gives you an easily accessible escape clause and doesn’t require as much of you.

    Which is why I am not buying that argument. because all that is being done is taking marriage off the table, it’s not about shifting the nature of the guy you’re dealing with, it’s just saying if you’re gonna deal with that negro just not be married to him.

    For most of us, the core element of marriage is sexual exclusivity and monogamy. Yet, the reality is, that most men cheat. They do. Maybe only once, maybe a thousand times. But reality of it is, that most men have a VERY hard time living up to a lifetime of sexual exclusivity with only one woman. And so since many men, seem to have such a hard time living up to that FUNDAMENTAL aspect of the contract, I often wonder how much sense, it makes for women to desire it so desperately.

    OK, then, by extension, you’re still having sex with, and in a relationship with, that cheating man, just not married to him.

    The entire argument of not wanting marriage makes sense if the engine driving it is a celibate lifestyle. If this reality is true, then you’re still dealing with it, whether married or single, all you’re really doing is protecting your assets. If most men cheat then not being married only makes it easier to walk, and more socially acceptable to do so.

    Now I am not seeing how that benefits women at all because if I’m gonna put years in, and gonna get cheated on anyway (since, by your words, most men do it), I’d rather come off with half of his ish then have nothing to show for it.

    Real talk. Hate to be so crass, but I’m just saying, how do you benefit in that situation?

    As much crap as people talk the reality is engaging in serial monogamy is tiring. Going through the vetting process, the getting to know you phase, the is this or is this not worth more, and all of that, is tiring and draining, emotionally, physically and socially. But if you’re not getting married, then you’re setting yourself up to be on that carousel for the rest of your life. Because if you don’t want marriage, you’re MOST LIKELY to attract those mates who aren’t interested in long-term coupling either.

    How is that working out?

    So it’s all like “well I don’t like what marriage currently means, and I’m not down for the subjugation of my feminine superiority.” OK, but you’re about to allow this dude continuous, repeated access to your vagina, repeated risk to having a child, with no social or legal protection.

    And that makes sense how?

    Oh, that’s right, because of all this social baggage marriage has and just how bad and miserable it can be for you. But if the alternative was making black women so bliss-freaking-ful happy, then

    we wouldn’t be having all this dialogue

    Just saying.

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